Inside The Mind of The Cutie with Weed & Grub
Why I’m Over Legalization, I Won’t Touch Delta-8 Products, Thoughts on Amazon Entering the Industry & Lots More
Mary Jane: We're talking to The Cannabis Cutie, Tammy Pettigrew. Can you just tell us a little bit about yourself? For all of our listeners who don't know yet?
Tammy: I'm a cannabis educator. I like to take the complexity of the science and make it easy to understand. And then I also have a couple business degrees, so I like to translate that to people and give them just simple, easy to understand information that they can be dangerous with.
I'm also a host, influencer, and let's say cannabis spirit guide.
Mike: May I add something to that? Someone who has strong opinions about how the world can be a better place?
Tammy: Yes, absolutely. That is me.
Mike: We were talking before this, and we'll get into more of it, but the questions you ask and the things that you hold people accountable for - mad respect.
Tammy; Thank you. After getting ripped by my own audience, I'm like, I have to do better. I need to ask the right questions because they're paying attention. And it's so great to have a community like that.
I've definitely popped up to dispensaries in different states. And then I'll have people DMing me like, "hey, you know that they're anti-homegrow?" So now I'm like, "Okay, I've got to ask good questions in the role that I have in the industry."
Mary Jane: Can you tell us how you got started in the weed industry as an educator?
Tammy: So I was one of those kids who didn't do any kind of substances in school. I was straight, narrow, square, good grades and went into college. And then I get to college. There's this kid on my floor that smokes weed every day. We're all judging him. He smells like a pound.
And then at the end of the semester, between the two of us, one of us made the honor roll. And the other one was on academic probation. And that's when I realized the D.A.R.E. program lied to me.
He made the honor roll and I had to go home and tell my mom I got a 0.8 GPA. So, needless to say, I came back for a second semester and finally tried the plant.
Everything that I dealt with in the first semester, it felt like it kind of just melted away. And all the anxiety and depression, the lack of sleep, all of a sudden was kind of easier to manage.
So that was kind of the beginning of: I need to tell the world. And that was in 2008, and I haven't been able to shut up about it since.
Mike: So what were you going through in college? Was it just a transition from home? Were you out of state? What hit you the hardest?
Tammy: Okay, this is gonna sound really crazy, but I went to a neighborhood that was extremely diverse, and then I went to an agriculture school in Stillwater, Oklahoma: Oklahoma State. Culture shock!
The only time I had seen that many white people was on TV. And I was not relatable. So like the issues I think it was...Jena Six was really huge. Do you guys remember that story?
Back in 2008, it was a group of white kids who jumped black kids and then the black kids jumped them back except the black kids all got charged with attempted murder. And it was a race war thing. There was a noose on the tree.
And that's the semester I remember being so infuriated by it because it applied equally. And the kids there were: "Do you know how dangerous a shoe is? They could have killed him when he stepped on him."
And it was just so in this twilight zone of “I don't fit in.” “Nobody relates to me.” Everybody's calling me like, you know, you're just making it up. Racism doesn't exist. I was being gaslit. I hated it. I was depressed. I did not know how to survive. So I wasn't even going to class. That's how I got to 0.8.
But I made the Honor Roll four times after that. So I figured it out. But for me, weed made me feel, "Hey, you know, this isn't that bad. You can figure it out. You can cope."
Mary Jane: That's so fantastic. We try to promote on here all the time that the productive cannabis consumer is more prevalent than the non-productive. The hardest working, most resilient fucking badass people that I know smoke the most weed.
Tammy: I feel like my stoner friends do too much. Like I don't know any stoners who are just sitting on the couch not doing anything with their life.
Mary Jane: Especially the people who work in cannabis, who are risking everything on a daily basis to make their dreams come true.
Tammy: It truly is. I think they have us confused with alcoholics.
Mike: And you don't drink.
Tammy: I don't drink. I stopped drinking during the pandemic after ordering a wine subscription. And I was getting wasted by myself and feeling terrible. And I was like: this is not anything I want to do.
So I stopped drinking. And then when everything opened back up, I tried drinking and it made me feel terrible.
Mary Jane: I'm interested in your book club, tell me about it!
Tammy: Oh my gosh, the Higher Learning book Club. So we meet once a week on Zoom.
During COVID, I was like, let's help people establish good habits. Let's meet weekly and talk about books.
And this past Saturday, we actually had our first in-person Club meeting for our 15th book.
Every book is about cannabis or drugs in some form or the War on Drugs. So it's been so much fun to kind of watch people who were excited just to join a book club.
Mary Jane: Can you tell us about a couple of the books that you've liked the most?
Tammy: So I love Smoke Signals. That's by Martin A. Lee. We opened with that one. And that one's going to give you the most comprehensive social history of how we got here.
And then The New Jim Crow is going to explain the War on Drugs and how cannabis is the reason why we have the War on Drugs. It's not cocaine or pills, it was cannabis that was fueling it.
And then another one that I really loved was Cannabis and Spirituality, to kind of talk about the plant as a spirit, and intention setting, and how to be successful using the plant.
Mike: Okay, so I've been on the road for a week straight. I'm fried. So if I smoke right now, and I'm thinking about how fried I am, I'm going to get tired?
Tammy: Yes, you've got to set that intention. So if you're like, “I'm so stressed out about work, I fucking hate that place. I just don't know why I'm still there.” And then you smoke—now you feel worse!
So if you can, allow the Spirit of the plant to help you. She feels great, and she wants to help you.
Mary Jane: I definitely have conversations with friends who say it just doesn't work for them. What do you say when you talk to people who say it's just not for me?
Tammy: I mean, self awareness is great. And if it's not for you, it's not for you. That could change. I think to some extent, it's for everybody, maybe not the getting high portion.
But because your body has a system dedicated to receiving this plant, there is some kind of way that it can be incorporated into somebody's life.
Mike: What do you find is the best access point? Do you find that when you're talking either to your audience or anyone else that there is one entry point that works better?
Tammy: I try to steer away from changing people's thinking. I'm the girl that if you want to know more information, that's what I'm here to do.
But if you're somebody who's on the fence or you just don't believe in what I'm saying, I can't help you.
So if somebody comes to me and they're like, "Hey, my sister smokes weed every day, I think she's a total loser. But she says it helps her. Can you explain to me what the fuck she's talking about?"
And then when I explain it, they're like, "Oh my gosh, you know, my sister got into like, some really crazy stuff 10 years ago, and she might have PTSD. And now that you're explaining this, maybe she actually is medicating."
Mary Jane: So you have a long view of the cannabis industry. You started out with your work in 2008-2009. Do you have strong opinions about the current state of legalization?
Tammy: My feelings are, you know, and I can't believe I'm saying this, even from January of this year to now, but I'm anti-legalization.
They're not preserving the industry, they're just trying to figure out another way to make money off of the people. And it's frustrating. And if they legalize it, we will completely lose control.
And the legislation that will go into effect will be so stupid.
I see states taxing you based on THC percentage. Basically, we're going to tax you because these strawberries are more red than the others.
These are people who don't understand the legislation and they're still going to figure out a way to keep their prisons full.
So I'm anti-legalization because I see what they're doing.
Mary Jane: Do you see anywhere in the country where you have a little bit of faith in the program? Because I'm hearing a lot of people talk about New York as this sort of hopeful gold standard.
Tammy: You've got to watch everybody else fumble and mess up, especially California. New York has the opportunity to get it right and be the new mecca of weed in the world. They have the most consumers.
So I'm excited about New York and the advocates and the people on the ground have done their job to make sure that they're holding their government accountable. So yeah, I'm excited for New York.
Mike: The idea of federal legalization also means all of these people hopefully get out of prison?
Tammy: Yeah, I think they'll still figure out how to charge people for possession.
So you could be somebody who has seen 100 seizures a day, and cannabis stops them. But they'll still say you're only allowed to have 28 grams per month. But if you need 14 grams in a week, then obviously you're still going to have to break the law for your health.
Mary Jane: I believe there was a bill introduced here in California fairly recently where they were trying to stamp out the illicit market, the legacy market.
They're trying to crush it out of existence by re-felonizing possession over a certain amount if you don't have a commercial license.
So they've legalized it in order to profit off of it and then they're going to re-criminalize the people who gave them the industry.
Tammy: Yes, in The New Jim Crow that we read in the Higher Learning Book Club, the prison industry said to their shareholders that the biggest threat to their industry is the legalization of cannabis.
Mary Jane: Just listening to you talk about the endocannabinoid system and the receptors in your body that are actually primed to receive this plant–that's education at a level that certainly isn't happening in the legal cannabis industry.
It's not like dispensaries are out there telling people about how your body actually works with weed. So, how did you get into that aspect of it?
Tammy: I was definitely an athlete. I was married to an athlete, a professional athlete. And that was kind of the beginning of me seeing cannabis as wellness.
But just think about it. Doctors are not allowed to participate in the industry. So people are getting medical advice from bud tenders.
And bud tenders are not getting proper advice either. They literally are the lowest paid players in the game.
So that's where I was like, okay, somebody has to give information because they're gonna ask you indica or sativa. Or show you THC percentages.
Mary Jane: So when you started consuming cannabis, how did you figure out what you liked and what worked for you? Do you have a specific kind of weed that works best with your body? Do you like all cannabis?
Tammy: Oh, no, I do not like all cannabis. If you hand me anything that smells like oranges, I will not touch it.
Mary Jane: What kind of strain would that be like any of that? Like Gelatos?
Tammy: No, gelato is more sweet. But like a tangy or anything that says Clementine–that's something I don't want. But I get really anxious and my heart speeds up or I just kind of like crash. It's not a fun feeling at all. But if it's an OG that smells like gas, I'm happy. I'm focused. I'm creative. So I like an OG.
Mary Jane: How long did it take you to figure that out? Did you have access to weed where you could figure that out early on?
Tammy: No, I figured that out here in California.
I figured it out through journaling. I would consume a plant and write down how it made me feel.
And that's when I figured out that oranges were not for me, and sweet smelling cannabis puts me to sleep.
Mike: You're the first person—no, second person—I've ever met who actually journaled. I've heard everyone say, “you should journal!” But no one really does it.
Tammy: It works. You have to become your own doctor.
When you go to your doctor, they're asking you questions and they’re journaling how you feel before, how do you feel now that you've been taking the medicine for a month, and let's adjust.
You can be your own doctor.
Mike: So news this week is from marijuanamoment.net. Check them out, really good stories. And this one is former NBA star Al Harrington on a CBD line that will be sold by Amazon and Walmart.
The NBA players union announced a new partnership to sell CBD products on Walmart and Amazon. This is not the NBA to clarify the NBA is not doing this. This is the NBA players union.
Tammy: Yeah, definitely some pros and cons. I think the cons being Amazon and Walmart.
Access is an issue. We do want people to have access to good cannabis or good CBD. But Amazon has this habit of swallowing up industries and making them theirs.
And they kind of operate as their own de facto government. So Amazon getting into weed kind of scares me a little bit.
But watching Al spread the cannabis gospel even more makes me really happy. And if there is going to be a beneficiary, you would love to see it be somebody who you know is in it for the right reason.
Mike: How do you feel about CBD hitting the shelves before anything? Is CBD legit?
Tammy: CBD is legit. But the issue that you run into is you have such a diverse set of molecules and compounds in the plant, and you're just singling out one.
You're like, this is the superior one. And it makes absolutely no sense. They're all cannabinoids. Why do we need to put a hyper focus on which one is better? And this one is evil. They are all beneficial.
And typically, when they're all together, that's when they're the most beneficial. Like you're asking the tuba player to carry the entire orchestra.
I wish they’d allow it to just be and that's the frustration that I have. I got invited to a celebrity CBD virtual event during the pandemic. I went they sent like a little care package.
Came to watch the zoom. And it was such a THC bashing that I just logged off.
This whole idea that intoxication is evil really makes no sense when you think about the fact that nature produces lots of intoxicating things. And it's not just humans that desire it.
What is your stigma towards intoxication? I'm in the pursuit of happiness. That's in the Declaration of Independence. Why are you infringing upon my rights?
Mary Jane: How do you feel about the loopholes that some companies have used to get around selling Delta-9 and Delta-8 edibles that are sourced from hemp?
Tammy: I don't trust the Delta-8 movement at all. And that's because you can create Delta-8 and synthetic cannabinoids in a lab.
Typically, the side effects with synthetic cannabinoids are just not great. I don't think I've tried a single Delta-8 product. And I'm not a fan of it in hemp-derived Delta-9.
What happens is cannabinoids start as CBGa. And then it's gonna go down one of the four pathways and become a different cannabinoid.
Basically, they're just breeding plants that don't go down the THC pathway and they're calling it hemp.
But you're just basically forcing a cannabis plant to not express part of itself, to hide that part of itself so that it can be legal and be within a society.
But if you are .4%, you are now a cannabis plant, and you have to be destroyed. It's like, it's so stupid. It's like you guys don't know what you're doing.
Mary Jane: We talked to the chef Roy Choy about it, because Roy was talking about the loss of genetics in the food world and how he sees that relating to weed. It's already happened in food. It's only just around the corner and we let the wrong people get their grubby little Wall Street paws on it.
Tammy: The wrong people have their grubby paws on it. That's why we have to support the legacy growers so that they don't have to be put in a position where they have to hand it over. Because they're just trying to survive.
Mary Jane: Who do you fuck with?
Tammy: The Originals. Family Farm. They're out in South Central. They have a store and it's vertically integrated. And they've had their genetics since the 90s.
Mary Jane: Do you go out there to hang out?
Tammy: I go out there for my flower. Yeah, I go all the way to South Central.
I also love Royal Blunts. I think there's something special about smoking 100% hemp throughout the whole thing, and I can't do tobacco. I have asthma, and it doesn't work out.
Mike: What are the questions that you ask companies before you do fuck with them?
Tammy: You see these companies. They look great. You meet representatives. And then you get ripped by your audience. They're like, hey, they don't support homegrow.
And I'm like: delete.
So now when companies reach out for me to visit, I'm going to ask specific questions, like…
“What are you doing to rectify the War on Drugs? Do you have any women of color or people of color or women as owner operators? I see you have 14 locations? You know, how many of those employees are women? How many are people of color? Are you employing a diverse set of people? Or are you the Abercrombie of weed?”
So, you know, I'm starting to ask those questions because I don't want to support corporate cannabis. Like, none of these corporate entities are reaching out to me, and I'm grateful for it. Because I don't know if I would be kind in my response.
Mary Jane: They see what you're doing. And they probably are a little scared that you might call them out.
Tammy: I do call them out. But that can be where my account goes down so much, too.
Mary Jane: Yeah, let's talk about that. So social media for you is a huge way for you to get your message out. You're almost 100k followers on IG. And you've been deactivated. How many times?
Tammy: Ten.
Mary Jane: What do you feel like is happening there? Is it your content? Is it someone reporting you because they're jealous of how cool you are?
Tammy: You know, we do know that mass reporting is a strategy in this industry. That's, for sure, one of the factors I think. I think AI is another factor. What I'm talking about, too. I think it's a combination of AI and mass reporting.
Mary Jane: When you say AI, what is that? Artificial intelligence algorithms?
Tammy: Yeah, that Instagram operates.
Mike: So you do believe in shadow banning?
Tammy: I not only believe in it. I have people who religiously wait for my content. It's like their news source for weed education. And they will let me know that they had to type my entire name out to find me to DM me to tell me they can't see my content.
And I got three messages over the weekend that they weren't able to respond to my DMs. They screen recorded and showed me that they're clicking on my stories and they're not loading but everybody else's are.
Mary Jane: Yeah, and you speak at a bunch of events too?
Tammy: Yes, that's my favorite thing. I would say my gift would be being able to make things sound easy.
And I have the opportunity to kind of be PR for this female plant, I'm going to take the opportunity to make sure you have the right perception of her because the media has ripped her to shreds for so long and you guys had it all wrong.
Mike: I’m seeing a lot of articles lately where cannabis is being used as a scapegoat. Tying cannabis use to a rise in violence
Tammy: That's what this country is great at. Let's blame everything on drugs. That way we don't have to address the policies that we've created that have caused this mess.
I just did a book in my book club called Drug Use For Grownups. And they're studying drug users, but they're all successful corporate people who are always on time, who are successful parents, successful in their careers, and there's no issues.
Mary Jane: Such a fascinating way to think about responsible drug use for any of the substances that you're mentioning.
Tammy: So drug users are typically pretty responsible: cocaine, heroin, meth. And then society has this idea that neighborhoods are like that because of the drugs but you have pills in your bathroom. You also do drugs. How are you separate from that?
Honestly, if we want to really fight the War on Drugs, instead raid private schools, take the drug dogs there. You will arrest 90% of the kids there. Stop going to the poor kid’s neighborhood.
Mike: I need to touch on one more thing–I hear a lot of people and brands flex on THC percentage. And I know this topic is a thorn in your side.
Tammy: THC percentage is cool. Phenomenal, but at a certain point, you kind of hit a wall.
It doesn't matter anymore. What really is going to make it matter is that smell. Like if it's 16% but that smell just really punches you in the nose, there's a good chance you're gonna be knocked off your ass, too.
It's the scent, it's the age, there's so much that goes into it.
With outdoor cannabis, they typically don't have higher percentages. But the sun can do so much more than a light bulb can; it's gonna produce chemicals that you can't get indoors and different cannabinoids and terpenes that may be super minor, but super, super potent.
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