Spitting Facts
The Dark History of Cannabis, The Truth About Opioid Use in Adult-Use States, and Much More on The Cannabinoid Connect Podcast
Kevin: Hello, my fellow people of the plant! Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Cannabinoid Connect Podcast…
Your favorite podcast that includes conversations with the industry's leading experts that aim to educate and inform the public regarding the plant's endless benefits.
My guest today is Tammy Pettigrew. She's a California-based cannabis educator and advocate. Tammy, welcome back. Thanks for coming on.
Tammy: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me back.
Kevin: When we last spoke, it was during the heightened craziness of 2020.
It was the pandemic that helped move the cannabis industry in a lot of different ways when it comes to consumer adoption, public support, and general politics.
So tell me–what have you been working on since we last spoke?
Tammy: Since we last spoke, I’ve launched a book club, The Higher Learning Book Club.
Kevin: What is it? Is it online or do you guys meet?
Tammy: We meet weekly. We read about 40 to 50 pages a week and the books are always cannabis based.
Right now we're doing The Emperor Wears No Clothes by Jack Herer. And it's been fun looking at the different perspectives from the various people in the industry. It gives us a vision of things.
Kevin: And when you say a vision of what it looks like, you mean a world in which we have full access to the plant?
Tammy: Yeah. Jack is looking at it from that perspective.
And he also has more of an angered tone. As if he’s asking, ‘Can you believe that this was happening?’
Kevin: Wow. What I gathered from Jack Herer, he was a pretty staunch conservative to begin with, right? He was introduced to cannabis through his girlfriend?
Tammy: Yes. He's a staunch Goldwater Republican, a former combat veteran, and he tried cannabis once and it didn't do anything.
And then the second time he tried it with his girlfriend and had the best sex of his life. And that is how we got an advocate!
Kevin: It's funny that you mentioned his tone—you can tell it's very abrupt.
And it's the recent comments made by the Governor of Nebraska and other politicians….there's false claims about death and killing your kids and all this kind of stuff where there's no data to back it up.
And so I noticed that when you talk about tone, a lot of people that came out to speak and address what they had said were forceful. They said, bluntly, “That's not correct.” Do you get that?
Tammy: Yeah, absolutely. He's basically pulling the wool off.
The government has been doing a deliberate misinformation campaign, and they can't prove what they’re saying is real.
So you have people like Jack, who are just stunned and can't support this because it is stupid. And I don't think he has any political allegiance in the book after he denounces being on the right.
Kevin: Right, and that’s what you’ve set your life’s mission to be, to promote educational advocacy and dispel those lies and provide information that is accurate.
So tell us what you're doing when it comes to content creation and other things.
Tammy: I currently have an online course where I teach Cannabis 101.
There are a lot of courses that either have unnecessary information or need more, so I built a course that gives the essential information, without any fluff.
How do we talk to our kids about this stuff, right? How do we educate them about cannabis’ therapeutic value and how we're biologically married to this plant through our endocannabinoid system?
Tammy: My first real discussion with my children was when we were planting.
Last spring, we were at home. We decided we're going to plant our own fruits and vegetables, and Mommy was also planting cannabis.
So they watched the plant go from seedling to mature, and the only thing that Mommy did was add water just like she did for the peppers and everything else in sunlight.
So that was my way of showing them that it’s just a plant.
They take CBD whenever they have a tummy ache or a headache or they get hurt, to help calm them down. They know there's therapeutic value.
And then I talk to them about how it helps with cancer and autism. And it helps with epilepsy and so many things.
I let them know that it can also put you in jail. What mommy's doing can attract the wrong attention at school. They're going to teach you that it's evil. And the kids ask, “How can it be evil?”
So, I definitely wanted to get to them before the Red Ribbon Program and the D.A.R.E. program at school did.
I would say the downside of it is when they see cannabis billboards in California. I don't like when they see the word cannabis and they light up.
I don't agree with the billboards at all, as a parent.
Kevin: What are these billboards? Because I'm not familiar with them.
Tammy: You'll just see ‘cannabis delivery’ and then my kids will say, “Mom, look, cannabis!” And then I’m shushing them.
But I do tell them the risks. The biggest side effect is you could go to jail. And that we don't really know what it can do to kids' brains, although Jack Herer claims it does nothing bad.
And then just look at the current generation and see who's really struggling with suicide and depression.
Who knows the benzos and antidepressants and anxiety medicine that they're giving these teenagers.
It’s frustrating because I think about the therapeutic value that cannabis has in helping with these issues. All this could probably put me in jail, but that's something that I'll have to face.
Once my kids become teenagers and they're struggling, would I rather put them on medicines that are going to have horrible side effects? Maybe give them the shakes for the rest of their lives? Or would I be open to giving them THC edibles or a vaporizer?
Kevin: I love that you're so transparent with them.
And you add the more complex topics, like people going to jail for weed. I'm sure that it's difficult for such a young person to wrap their head around that, but at least they try to understand.
Again, it's just a plant. Saying that takes away some of that confusion, I think. Have you seen that?
Tammy: Yeah, I definitely think so. They're still appalled that it's illegal. They ask “Why aren’t broccoli or tomatoes illegal?
I think adults wonder this, too, but kids can make something complex seem so simple.
Kevin: We’ve seen opioid related deaths go down in some states where cannabis has been legalized for adult use. So do you use some of that data when educating people?
Tammy: Yeah, absolutely. I tried to talk about the reduced crime rates, the reduction in prescription drug use, and the reduction in alcohol and alcohol-related accidents and abuse.
But unfortunately, the propagandists are still out there. And they're arguing that crime is actually going up. Actually, abuse is going up.
Kevin: Directly related to cannabis?
Tammy: Yes, they are arguing that. There’s a book called Tell Your Children that makes the argument that schizophrenia and other mental health issues are on the rise.
And so as much as you try to spit facts, there's just so many people that will come back at you with misinformation.
You have to figure out how to espouse data without having the ‘fake news’ people come at you.
Kevin: I think one of the most powerful methods is testimonial stories.
For example, you mentioned how cannabis helps young children with things like epilepsy.
Having those people tell those stories firsthand—how can you tell someone that they're not feeling better when they're saying that they are?
Tammy: I mean, our government doesn’t care how many lives are saved by cannabis. For them, being high is a moral issue.
But we alter our moods in other ways that they don’t care about, like alcohol, coffee, or prescription drugs. Those are all versions of being high.
Kevin: It's like they're pivoting. So now they've gone from ‘it causes murders and death’ to ‘it’s a gateway to other bad drugs.’
My prediction is that with so much public support and public momentum among the states and even at the federal level, Big Pharma is about to start ponying up some money and lobbying again.
Tammy: Reading Smoke Signals and The Emperor Wears No Clothes, they talk about when Anslinger employed it the first time.
Kevin: So let's talk about federal legalization. In my view, I think we're still a ways out. What's your outlook on Federal legalization?
Tammy: So my prediction is that, by the end of the year, we will have federal legalization. I'm not sure how we will get there.
Typically, the left is going to be the one who is going to pass cannabis legalization.
Although I will say that Democratic presidents are horrible when it comes to the War on Drugs. Nixon and Reagan probably take the crown, but I would say Clinton and Obama are right up there with Bush.
I just hope that it's a full de-schedule of cannabis and not a reschedule, like when they drop cannabis down a level and then FDA approval is required for all products on the market.
Doing that would destroy our industry.
Kevin: In your business, are you affected at all by the safe banking legislation they are working on?
Tammy: If you Google my name, people don't want to bank with me at all. They see that I have a leaf in my logo. So I do the PayPal thing and that works.
Kevin: Yeah and the banks, at any time, can pull the rug out from under your feet. At any time they can just stop banking with you.
What are your thoughts when it comes to sun grown cannabis versus indoor?
Tammy: I prefer my cannabis sun grown. The cannabis plant can grow in any controlled environment because a controlled environment is optimal.
You can control pests, and wind, and all types of different forces that you can't protect your plants from in nature.
But the sun is able to produce rays that a light bulb can't. So those rays are going to produce special chemicals. So I always prefer sun-grown vegetables, fruit, and cannabis.
Kevin: So about the chemicals—is sun grown different medicinally? Is there more of a terpene profile or more secondary compounds within a sun grown plant?
Tammy: Yeah, you're gonna have a wider and fuller spectrum of chemicals. More rays equals a greater ensemble variety.
Kevin: What are your thoughts on Humboldt County banning hemp cultivation?
Tammy: I think it's smart. Reading the headline, you think ‘Why would they do that?’ But Humboldt County grows the majority of their cannabis outdoors.
And if you know anything about hemp plants, they have seeds, and those seeds can travel via insects, birds (who absolutely love hemp seed), the wind, the weather, and so on.
And if those seeds touch the female cannabis plant and the buds that we want to smoke, what she's gonna do is focus all her time in creating seeds.
So you need to sexually starve her from seeds and boy plants so that she'll focus on only making those beautiful flowers. She can't do both. And if she has to pick, she's gonna pick the seeds.
Kevin: But I'm wondering if banning is the answer? Because we talked about how it's just a plant?
Tammy: We could definitely figure out how to zone it, but it's probably an issue that outdoor cultivation sites are already too scattered. Trying to figure that out might take time.
And are the citizens of Humboldt County even interested in growing hemp? Or is it just something that smaller farmers are doing? Questions like that need to be answered.
Not everyone wants it. In the United States, imagine we have full legalization. California would not be worried about hemp. That would be going back to the Midwestern and the southern states who have a rich history with it.
You would see hemp fields going up all over Tennessee, Kentucky, Virginia and the Carolinas.
Kevin: So, what else is on your mind?
Tammy: I’ve been paying attention to what's happening with states wanting to ban cannabis.
Obviously, they're worried about federal legalization coming because they're taking away the option before it's even on the table. And I think that's something that we need to pay attention to.
There are people who are interested in protecting legal slavery. Cannabis is a number one recruiter for being able to legally kidnap people, especially poor people.
So I definitely think that while we're enjoying our legal cannabis, we still need to be mindful that there are people sitting behind bars for doing exactly what we're doing.
And that's what I want people to focus on, that there's more than just the demonization of the plant. They are protecting industries and families whose wealth is at stake.
I think our country is very uncomfortable having that conversation. If you read The New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander, she talks about how we've always figured out how to replace slavery. We did it with Jim Crow.
And then how did we replace Jim Crow? We did it with mass incarceration.
And it was also a way to make it a racist thing. When you have New York City, where 90% of the people being stopped for cannabis are people of color, it is absolutely a policy that is biased.
People who want to be in this industry, but don't want to talk about social equity, or social, or racial justice, probably shouldn't be here. You've got to really understand the history and how dark it is.
Although this plant is loving and joyful, and it brings us a sense of purpose or lightheartedness, the darkness through which this plant has had to go—and the people that have suffered because of it—is something that needs to be addressed.
Kevin: Awesome, I agree. Ok, we’ll wrap it up there. Thank you so much for coming on.
Tammy: No, thank you. I had a great time.
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